Yippee kay yeah mofo!

I can't believe this was not built elsewhere. Why are they building such facilities in this God-forsaken frozen hell-hole? I'm absolutely certain these will all be minimum wage unskilled jobs anyway.

The business community is beginning to invest again in anticipation of being removed from the shackles of the business-unfriendly Provincial NDP.

The Tories will remove the crippling payroll tax and Manitoba will once again be open for business.

GOM, they're practically minimum wage. Standard offers just over minimum wage for the first 6 months, and $12-13/hr after. They are the absolute lowest paying of the major aerospace employers in Winnipeg (Air Canada, Boeing, Bristol, and Standard). They are also the only one of the 4 that are not CAW represented. No coincidence I would think.

Some people like it there, but they're usually the one's that can't get on at the others OR would rather work in a non-union shop where they can feel better about themselves for making $0.50/hr more than the someone else because they are a great employee. Nevermind that they earn 50% less than their counterparts in the industry.

Just to clarify, the wages I quoted above are for the typical "overhaul technician" position at Standard which is the majority of their workforce. Obviously more technical positions pay better, but those positions are still typically lower than their industry counter parts and in fact are more in line with entry level pay at a place like Boeing. For instance I know QC guys at Standard with full credentials that earn roughly the same as technicians at Boeing. Bottom line is Standard is bottom of the barrel for wages and working conditions in the local aerospace industry.

StandardAero must have a huge turnover. Every time Air Canada, Bristol and Boeing need an experienced overhaul tech I'll bet they arrive immediately and nicely trained from StandardAero.

I understand that Boeing will be adding a few dozen peeps to their workforce soon. Will any of their 1340 employees remain behind to work at Standard?

I have great difficulty believing any trained aircraft technician is earning fifty cents above minimum wage to $13/hour. I find it impossible to believe that one person will earn 100% more at Boeing than their counterpart of equal skills at StandardAero will earn.

Furthermore, I have no doubt the new jobs at the new $50 million dollar StandardAero research facility will be professional jobs accompanied by comparable high industry wages.

Perhaps we are talking about unskilled fresh from high school labour jobs?

I was just at RRC Stevenson Aviation facility. That place was cram-packed with eager aircraft students. Are these kids going to graduate into $13/hour StandardAero jobs?

I work in the electrical industry. I know most electrical contractors that aren't unionised pay very competitive wages to attract and keep their most experienced and best people.

I'm certain all these people feel very good about themselves and know that they will be rewarded for working harder and smarter than someone less motivated.

grumpy old man wrote:StandardAero must have a huge turnover. Every time Air Canada, Bristol and Boeing need an experienced overhaul tech I'll bet they arrive immediately and nicely trained from StandardAero.

I understand that Boeing will be adding a few dozen peeps to their workforce soon. Will any of their 1340 employees remain behind to work at Standard?

I have great difficulty believing any trained aircraft technician is earning fifty cents above minimum wage to $13/hour. I find it impossible to believe that one person will earn 100% more at Boeing than their counterpart of equal skills at StandardAero will earn.

Furthermore, I have no doubt the new jobs at the new $50 million dollar StandardAero research facility will be professional jobs accompanied by comparable high industry wages.

Perhaps we are talking about unskilled fresh from high school labour jobs?

You obviously don't know anybody that has worked for Standard as well as one of their competitors then. I work in the industry, trust me the average starting wage at Standard is anywhere from 30-50% less than their industry counterparts for anything other than the most skilled professional jobs. The majority are very underpaid compared to their counterparts. The only advantage StandardAero offers is stability, but at a huge loss of income. Some people prefer the "safe" bet, others prefer to ride out the ups and downs at the other 3.

grumpy old man wrote:I was just at RRC Stevenson Aviation facility. That place was cram-packed with eager aircraft students. Are these kids going to graduate into $13/hour StandardAero jobs?

Most of those students have been sold a fairy tale. As someone who has taken the AME-S course at Stevenson and who knows many others who have done the same I can wholeheartedly say it's a massive gamble that will result in failure and a waste of a LOT of money for 95% of them. The fact is that to complete your apprenticeship as an AME in this province you have to be willing to work for one of the few bush airlines, usually in a northern outpost for an average starting wage around $12-14/hr if your lucky. That's after you've spend $7K at Stevenson (when I was there, lower now that they are part of RRC) and $10-15k on your own tools. You can look forward to that kind of income for 3-5yrs untill your log book is complete.Then you can try to compete for one of very few decent paying jobs at AirCanada or Westjet, but since they're mostly outsourcing maintenance now the likelyhood is extremely slim.

I personally know at least 2 DOZEN people who have trained at Stevenson as AME's and NONE finished their hours. NONE are working as AME's. Practically all are employed at Boeing or Bristol, while some have left the industry completely for more steady employment.

As far as I'm concerned the aerospace program at RRC mostly sell's BS about AME's making $50-60k/annually right out of school. What they don't bother mentioning is that era ended 15 years ago when AirCanada pretty much stopped hiring. They're not even AirCanada heavy maintanance anymore, now they're Aveos and they're slowly but steadily winding down in N.America as they steadily move offshore as much as possible.

Maybe you should stick to industries you know more about.

grumpyrom wrote:Maybe you should stick to industries you know more about.

You have a PM.

Ok, sorry GOM. We don't see eye to eye but not everything is an attack. It was a suggestion/statement that the Manitoba aerospace industry may not be a topic you have much knowledge about. Sorry if that offended you but lighten up a bit. Your rebuttal is way more of a personal attack, as have many other's of your past attacks (again, just reminding you of the name calling).

To answer your question a little more simply, and civily then...yes the majority will be graduating into $13/hr jobs at StandardAero if they're lucky.

Let me give you some more background information on the aerospace courses offered at RRC/Stevenson (keep in mind this info is a few years old but likely fairly current). There are/were 3 main programs offered:

The AME (Aircraft Maintenance Engineer) programs consisting of "E" (avionics), "M" (powerplant), and "S" (structures) specialties. RRC/Stevenson sells this as a high demand occupation with great earning potential. As I mentioned before, what they dont mention is that the only place you'll find a job is working for something like Perimeter or Bearskin or likely worse at a northern depot for $12-13/hr to start. That's after you've bought and paid for your tools. WE all know what northern living cost are like right? Sounds like a great way to start your new career after you've put out $10-20K. If you survive long enough to get your log book done, you can look forward to struggling to find anyone left in Canada that is still hiring. I have one friend that recently graduated and searched coast to coast and could not even find an apprenticeship spot anywhere. Not even for the crap wages listed above.

Next is the AMT (aerospace maintenance technician) program. They used to charge ~$7k for this (and I know a poor girl who paid that, worked 11months and was laid off) but it's down to around $1,500 last I heard. For that you get basically nothing. It's supposed to give you a leg up for getting into Boeing or Bristol, but in all honesty you'd be better off being unemployed. You have better odd's getting hired through HRDC or welfare than with an AMT certificate. Also, both Boeing and Bristol offer paid training when they do hire. What's the point of the AMT certificate again?

Lastly, there the Jet Overhaul Technician program. Similar to the above, what's the point again? When hiring StandardAero runs huge job fairs and offers the training on the job for at least some money. Why would you pay RRC/Stevenson for that privellege when Standard will pay you to train? BTW, I know someone who attended their last job fair, training wages offered were $8.95/hr for 6 months, then "around" $13/hr to start. If Standard's wages were more competitive you wouldn't see so many laid off Bristol and Boeing employee's leaving them the second they get a recall.

What RRC/Stevenson does with their aerospace program should be illegal. Many of the courses offered are free and paid by the local employer's if your offered a job and the others have almost zero market demand. Yet they keep pumping out more students every year to keep the revenue coming in. I would personally advise any new high school grads to avoid Stevenson like the plague.

All of these costs/downsides pale in comparison's to what new pilots go through, but that's a completely different discussion.